Transcript Of Oral History Tape #76 Transcribed by Mary Ann Vartia 08/10/03.
Interviewer: Okay. Did you want to talk about some of those (Indecipherable) games?
Speaker 1: Oh, gee, there were a lot of games that kids played, I think.
Interviewer: Which ones?
Speaker 1: Go away, run, run—I can’t even remember I (indecipherable) them now; but we had no basketball or anything of that kind of game, just things that, we were raised on games. A lot of them we made up ourselves, and we only had school then till April, from September till April there wasn’t (Indecipherable) school further than that.
Interviewer: Were you in school all (indecipherable) in school?
Speaker 1: We had school hours from half past eight and a 15-minute recess until Noon, and then from Noon I think we had till one o’clock, and then at 15 after, at 15 minute after one we’d stay (indecipherable), and then we were out at four o’clock. But we were in school at all the times I remember we were in school. Well, all the grades I was in up to high school, I just had those two, we had one teacher for the class, there wasn’t—except we had the music teacher come, a county music teacher that came later, probably what you call junior high now up in eighth grade. And then in high school we had a principal (indecipherable).
Speaker 2: (Indecipherable) We had one teacher (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: (indecipherable).
Speaker 2: Geometry (indecipherable).
Interviewer: Where did you go to school?
Speaker 1: At Otis.
Interviewer: Otis? Were there eleven in your school?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Interviewer: (Indecipherable).
Speaker 1: I think it was at one time, but not—just the twelve grades when I went there. I know my brother graduated from there in 1911, so (Indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What were some of the subjects that you studies in school
Speaker 1: Well, of course, in the grades count on reading, and writing, and arithmetic and spelling. We had spell downs in school almost every week, once a week anyway. You would think they did that now (Indecipherable) spell, and we had, oh, social affairs at Christmas time and different things like that. We had parties and things. It’s been so long ago for me it is kind of hard to remember, so (indecipherable).
Interviewer: Do you know what your favorite class was?
Speaker 1: Well, I liked the—I didn’t like mathematics, I know that. I liked English and history.
Speaker 2: She still don’t like history.
Speaker 1: I liked history very well, and English, too. And then I think when I went was about when they first started teaching domestic science in the school.
Interviewer: Did you take domestic science?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Interviewer: How was that taught?
Speaker 1: Well, we had a teacher from, uh, I think she lived here during that time, Miss Mildred Smith. She taught in the Michigan City schools a long time later, and she taught; but it was very different from what it is now.
Interviewer: What kind of things did you learn?
Speaker 1: We had common oil stoves, kerosene stoves, to cook on then, and well, we got quite a lot out of it. It seemed. I really think that at that time, maybe it’s because I’m old now, I think we just looked up to the teachers more, respected them more. The teachers more dedicated I think at that time, maybe not but in some of the ways, some of the things here, it looks to me like, it seems to me like. And then in high school, we had a principal and an English teacher and history and Latin and all the usual ones, but not as many for each class as they have now. I think we learned quite a bit. When I graduated from high school, as a senior, there was 11 in our class, and at that time that was quite a large class because I can remember hearing my brother tell about some of the classes that he only had about three when he graduated, went all through high school and graduated.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: No.
Speaker 2: (Indecipherable)
Interviewer: (Indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Let’s see, I was trying to think…
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) Smith (indecipherable).
Interviewer: A.K. Smith?
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) Smith retired.
Interviewer 2: How did the teacher, if one teacher taught all the grades, how did the teacher divide his or here time?
Speaker 1: Well,…
Interviewer 2: (Indecipherable).
Speaker 1: (indecipherable) so many minutes to the class, and she had two classes, but she had those two classes and (indecipherable) when I first started. Back now I can remember all my teachers names in the eighth grade, but other things like that I can’t remember—when you get to be as old as I am, it’s kind of hard to remember.
Interviewer: Was there a problem with discipline?
Speaker 1: Yes. Quite strict discipline at that time.
Interviewer: Do you remember some of the rules, what were you allowed to do, what you weren’t allowed?
Speaker 1: We weren’t allowed to do any talking in class. I mean, when we weren’t having class, and not to interrupt one another and things like that. I know that. Quite strict about that. Some days (indecipherable).
Interviewer: What kind of punishment was there then?
Speaker 1: Oh, standing up with your back to the school, to the (indecipherable), going to the blackboard standing up, even had, I think for a few of the boys a dunce cap once in a while and set on a stool. The problem some of them got more punishment than that, but they were, they were quite strict, I know that. We knew it so we didn’t do too much. I don’t mean we were perfect by any means. When we got out of school, we probably cut up enough, but … Then when I got in high school, we had—of course, there were several teachers there for different subjects. Then, I don’t believe if I remember, I recall the superintendent was the principal (indecipherable). Then for a while we had a superintendent as a principal (indecipherable). It was Mr. Now (sp?) from here, that taught here for so many years. He was my Latin teacher, and he also taught other subjects, too. Now as it is over here, I don’t think the principal even has to teach a class.
Interviewer 2: How far away did you live from school?
Speaker 1: Oh, about seven or eight blocks. We went home every Noon for lunch. We had no hot lunches then or anything like that. We had to go home for Noon lunch. If it would be a terrible day like a blizzard or something, our mother would pack our lunch for us. We never thought anything of going back home.
Interviewer: Did you get very many snow days off like they do now?
Speaker 1: Not too many, no. No, I don’t think we ever had as many off as they do now. We made it some way and we got there, I don’t know how but we did.
Interviewer: (Indecipherable) Latin and other course, did everyone in high school have to take the same classes?
Speaker 1: We did not have much preference at that time (indecipherable). I know that we had to take Latin and Algebra, Geometry—and I hated that—I know it was very hard for me, but I, uh, we didn’t have very much of the classes they have now. English and history and ancient history and (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What kind of social events did you have in school (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Oh, (indecipherable), but we had oh, parties, and all different holidays. Valentine’s Day we would have some special day.
Interviewer: What would you …
Speaker 1: Box socials that they had once in a while in school, (indecipherable), but they had them, but I don’t think we ever had dancing at school when I went. In fact, we didn’t have a gymnasium or auditorium then, we wouldn’t of had any.
Interviewer: When did you graduate?
Speaker 1: I graduated in 1916, and I’ve—that’s 62 years, although they started the alumni in 1917. Our class was the first one, the class of ’16. Mr. Now taught us all through, and I don’t know why but we all hated to leave school. I never thought I would, but we did; and at that time, that year, he said that he thought that would be a nice idea to have a kind of a (indecipherable) and get back together; and all those years I never missed one. I attended my 62nd, I guess it was, last year and made a speech, and they presented me with (indecipherable). But after the program, they would probably think that was, oh, dear, that long ago that she hadn’t ought to be able to get here (indecipherable over laughter), but I enjoyed school and I still like, I like to go to things they have over here at school, different things that they have always going on, but that was in 1916 (indecipherable).
Interviewer: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Well, I don’t think quite as many as they do, as they do now, but still a pretty good percentage for that size school. We didn’t even have a yearbook. I have my old diploma around here some place, but I couldn’t find it, but a…
Speaker 2: The games we played you got to have a gym.
Speaker 1: Well, we probably played all that, too--put them in a circle, ant then run around the circle and drop it behind somebody and then when she gets it, the first girl has to go and catch you and then the other one is it. It is a simple game, but …
Interviewer: How old were you when you played that?
Speaker 1: Well, I was around eight when I played it, I know.
Interviewer: Did both boys and girls play?
Speaker 1: Yes. (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What kind of games did you play when you weren’t in school?
Speaker 1: Oh, gee, I don’t remember. I know it was pump, pump, pull away was one, but I can’t even remember how we played that, I can’t. It was some kind of a game the bunch of us took part in.
Interviewer 2: Did you play baseball? (Indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: We played baseball.
Speaker 1: They were just starting basketball when I-- and that was outside, they had a basket, you know the (indecipherable) and they had a girl, but I didn’t play it then. They just (indecipherable) about that last year. You see we didn’t have gymnasium then, and that was built on the old school afterwards. Of course, now they have (indecipherable).
Interviewer: Did you have any type of physical education (indecipherable)? Was it considered an important (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: No, I don’t think so, not as much.
Interviewer: What was the most important thing about school, I mean, did the parents want their kids to be taught the most when you were in school?
Speaker 1: Well, I don’t know, that was just the thing they did then, I guess. That was, there wasn’t really as much as the later years, like basketball. Oh, the boys played baseball outside and things like that game, but there wasn’t the stress put on it (indecipherable).
Interviewer: What about the other classes, was there a stress on any type of teaching?
Speaker 1: No, I don’t think, not that I recall.
Interviewer 2: Did you live on a farm?
Speaker 1: No, we lived here in town.
Interviewer 2: Did many of the kids live in town, or (Indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Well, quite a lot of them. At that time they had school buses drawn by horses to help bring people to school. And there were quite a few of them. There used to be more one-room schoolhouses out in the country area then, you know. There was one at Pinhook, and we had a school out here that is gone now. There is a little cemetery there now.
Speaker 2: How small was that school?
Speaker 1: When we went there that was small one. There was a lot of smaller schools, but then later they came here from west of town, (indecipherable) and then down around southwest in Kenton Township, and they were all brought in on school buses, but there were a lot of them, but mainly a part of them that lived in town, people who lived in town. I just don’t remember what the population was at that time—not near as big as it is now, of course, but we had the Beatty Circle area and they have people live here now.
Interviewer: Did you have to go to school? Was there compulsory education then?
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, I think it was. Of course, a lot of them, some of them didn’t go any farther than eighth grade, and some would go maybe to second year of high school and quit, but there was eleven of us that went all through. Now, my sister, when she went they taught Latin, English, physical—now they had more of that then, you see—that was in ’22 and I graduated in 16. Manual training and history, well, they had manual training.
Interviewer: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Well, that’s for woodwork, working with wood and building things and things like that; and we had a manual training teacher then, and two of the girls out of our class took it. It was mostly boys, that was unusual because two of the girls took it, but now she had her manual training and history, Caesar, physics, and Cicero, and we took, we took, and I took Caesar and physics; I didn’t take Cicero. Now she has got commercial arithmetic, and I guess we took that too, and home economics. I liked that. It was quite different than it is now (indecipherable). We had sewing machines and cooking and (indecipherable) and everything—and botany. I took botany. Mr. Now, the principal, was the teacher of botany. He taught several subjects. He was a very good Latin teacher, too.
Interviewer: Did you have much trouble when you were in school?
Speaker 1: Well, mathematics sometimes (indecipherable) My brother helped me with it because it was quite hard for me.
Interviewer: I mean did the teacher assign homework or (Indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Some, but (Indecipherable) I guess kind of established trust and we would take some of our books and homework to study (indecipherable) at night, especially (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What did most people do when they got out of high school? Did they stay around, work here?
Speaker 1: No, not too many and several that went on. In those days you didn’t have to go to college as long as you do now to be a teacher. They had what they called Normal School, so many weeks, and quite a few that graduated before I did went on to, they went to Winona Lake down here or to Valparaiso University, and it just took, I forget how long, not anything like it is now. (Indecipherable). There was quite a few good teachers that have graduated from here, and some of them come back here to teach afterwards. We had Mr. Katz who was the banker at that time, and his son was also a banker (indecipherable) and his granddaughter taught domestic science and English. She taught here for a while.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) a semester at Valparaiso was $185.00 (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: More than that.
Speaker 2: (Indecipherable).
Speaker 1: And these yearbooks (indecipherable) quite a while after me, but I found this one of my sister’s the other day (indecipherable) and it had ads for the stores in LaPorte and …
Interviewer: Were most of your teachers women?
Speaker 1: The grade teachers were, and then after I got in high school, I think once we got in high school we had, I think, three men, a principal, and a manual training teacher, and one of our history teachers, so it might have been four at that time.
Interviewer 2: How did people travel around in those days, suppose you wanted to go over to Michigan City or LaPorte, how would you go there?
Speaker 1: We had better service than we have now. We had two or three trains out of here on the Monon. We went to Chicago on the Wabash Train, we’d go in the morning, come back in the afternoon, or come back at midnight. And I don’t think they had any buses then, but we had much better train service than we have now. We always went to Michigan City on the train then.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) the electric train (indecipherable) to Gary (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Yeah, that Airlines called then (indecipherable).
Interviewer: Oh, the Airlines came through here?
Speaker 1: Uh-huh, well it was about two miles north of here.
Interviewer 2: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Well, not too many, not too many when I first went. Going to grade school it was very (indecipherable) But we did, we often speak of that, we had much better train service than we do now. There is absolutely none now (indecipherable).
Interviewer: What did the town look like when you were growing up?
Speaker 1: Well, downtown the main street looked a little better than it does now, it doesn’t look too well.
Interviewer: Was that still the center of town?
Speaker 1: That was the center of town, and we had several, we had two or three dry goods and grocery stores. They called them dry goods, they were like department stores at that time, and a bank and the only churches were the German Lutheran and the Methodist and the Christian Church; and there was a Catholic church here at one time. Now the nearest Catholic church is in Otis, and ah, in fact the first Catholic church here was right up near the school house where the German Lutheran (indecipherable) a long time (indecipherable) But it looked, of course, this part was just woods then, and this is all new part. We used to live down the other part of town, even after we were married, we moved up here quite a while ago. Since that the new school has been built; the old school burned down and it was different. It was all on the same order, but I think, I don’t know, it seemed different. Of course, this part is all new up here.
Interviewer: How many people were in the population (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: I was trying to think, the population about the time I was growing up.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Oh, (Indecipherable), you’re just making that up. No, it was, oh, it was more than that, but it wasn’t near as big as it is now.
Speaker 2: It probably went up to 600 (indecipherable) 2600.
Speaker 1: Oh, I think it was more than 600 even when I went, by the time that I was out of high school. But that was, there were a lot of people that lived in the outskirts around, you know, that wasn’t counted in (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What would you do in the evenings when it came and you didn’t have television? I don’t think (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: I know that, you know, now when I think back we sure had a lot of fun, so I don’t know what we did. We’d go to each other’s houses and play games and sing and play the piano and things like that and we didn’t (indecipherable).
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Yes, there was, more than now. Then in the churches, too, I think there was quite a lot of, well, there’s a lot of that now, but—I don’t know (indecipherable). Of course, we hadn’t had it, so we couldn’t miss it.
Interviewer: Was everyone involved in the churches? I mean, the churches were strong in this are?
Speaker 1: Well, pretty much. (Indecipherable) sang in the choir, (indecipherable) and a lot of different things that I have helped with and still do. We just had to make our own song, our own games and things and get together. We had different things in summer, medicine shows and things that would come here; and of course, to us that hadn’t been out of town much.
Interviewer: What was the medicine show like?
Speaker 1: They would get up and sell medicines and spoke, you know, and then be a barker or something to sell all that stuff. We’d go to the show. My dad was town clerk for several years and we always looked forward to that. We always got free tickets because, I don’t know whether it was the license or what they had to have, but the town people could get free tickets, so I’d invite some of my schoolmates to go with me (indecipherable). And then we would go occasionally to Michigan City and LaPorte. As I say, we’d go on the Monon train. Until my folks got a car, we’d go on the Monon train.
Interviewer: Do you know how much it cost to (indecipherable) on the Monon?
Speaker 1: Oh, I don’t think it was more than Fifty Cents, I know. And that was another big event. A lot of times when the train would come in, especially they would have excursions in the summertime or anything, why everybody would gather down at the depot. Of course, that was the way our mail came, so they had someone who knew all the different—our mail service was better since we got out mail quicker than we do now.
Interviewer: Where was the Monon depot?
Speaker 1: It was down in the, right through Main Street. It’s still standing. The Ford garage is on this side of it, right next to the, near the Monon tracks—and the old Wabash depot (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What did you do in Michigan City when you’d get there?
Speaker 1: Oh, we had relatives there. We’d see them; we’d go to the park; and always our folks had one picnic or something on Labor Day. My father’s people lived over in Harvey, Illinois, and in Chicago. They’d come over. They had a boat that come over then. They’d come over and we’d go over the rental—oh, what do they call those things? (Indecipherable) surrey with a fringe on top, like it was only three feet, to take our family and we’d meet them at the park and have a picnic with them and they’d go back on the boat and we’d come home. Oh, that’s a long, long time, I forgot about it. And do our shopping, our main shopping there, there or in LaPorte. We really went to LaPorte more, I think. At that time we had about four doctors in town, and now we don’t even have a doctor right in the town. We have one out southwest (indecipherable) someone comes from Michigan City and he lives out here and has an office. And we’d always go to the County Fair in the summer, that was a big …
Interviewer 2: Was that still in LaPorte?
Speaker 1: Yeah, in LaPorte.
Interviewer 2: How was it different from today’s Fair?
Speaker 1: Well, it wasn’t as large, and I don’t think, although they had a very good County Fair. It wasn’t in the same place it is now. Horse races and things like that. It was... (Indecipherable) …
Interviewer: High school?
Speaker 1: Well, the fair grounds, where the high school…
Interviewer 2: Over on I Street?
Speaker 1: Yeah, on I Street, was in the same place as the County Fair, the old County Fair grounds.
Speaker 2: Well, (indecipherable) You know where 18th Street is?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: It was on 18th Street.
Speaker 1: Off of 18th, Eighth and something (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: Were there circuses in those days that would (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Yeah, we’d have quite a few, and then they’d have probably one or two a year in LaPorte or Michigan City.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable)
Interviewer: Which (indecipherable), the orchards?
Speaker 2: You know the Radke (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: That’s her name, that’s her name.
Interviewer: Yeah?
Speaker 1: Lester Radke.
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 2: Lester?
Speaker 1: No, (indecipherable), it was the Radke’s that had them.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable)
Interviewer: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: I wondered when …
Speaker 2: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: (indecipherable) Gladys was the one who sent her down here. I got a card from Gladys, we got a birthday card. Gladys is in Alabama now.
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Had a great time, they had been to the Mardi Gras.
Interviewer 2: When you were in school, you said that was 1916?
Speaker 1: That’s the year I graduated in.
Interviewer 2: What was the feeling like in those days? I know that there was a war going on in Europe and America was kind of (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Well, that was later, though, that was 1918. Of course, it didn’t start until around 1918. There really wasn’t any war at that time, there wasn’t any. It was kind of a carefree time, as I say, it wasn’t…
Interviewer 2: People didn’t really worry about it?
Speaker 1: No. There wasn’t, not at that time. Later, he went to World War I (indecipherable), but no, (indecipherable) and there certainly wasn’t all the vandalism and the terrible things happening what there is now. I think it was a kind of a peaceful time. (indecipherable)
Interviewer 2: What was the era right after that, before the Depression years, was that very hard and rough then, too?
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was. Of course, we weren’t married then, (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What can you remember about those days?
Speaker 1: Well, there were some pretty hard times around here, but not as bad as some of them that lived in the city. It was a (indecipherable) time, but, of course, everybody suffered from the effects of it, (indecipherable) but then we’d been married about (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: Remember the Prohibition era?
Speaker 1: Yes, I remember a little bit about it.
Interviewer 2: Can you tell us much about hat?
Speaker 1: No, for one thing there used to always be a number of saloons in the county here and there, they never lacked for them. I think there were probably three or four at that time.
Interviewer: Did they run on Sundays, too?
Speaker 1: No. There were quite a few then
Interviewer: Was there a theater in town?
Speaker 1: At one time there was a small one, movie theater, picture house as they called it then, down where The Indicator office of the Westville paper is now. It wasn’t even… (Knocking) It wasn’t the same building as… They left the car down there at the end of the street.
Interviewer: Were there a lot of plays in school?
Speaker 1: Well, we always had, every year we had a--well, they still do, I think. They still have some very good plays over here, but Mr. Now directed that, too, he’s the retired principal. And we always had a school play. That one was kind of a –not anything too much. It was fun, and we had the --girls sang and things like that.
(Indecipherable discussion).
Interviewer: Was it an exciting event, did everyone try to get in?
Speaker 1: Everybody, and the people of the town came. You know there wasn’t any theaters or anything, and everybody, the parents attended and everybody else went at that time.
Interviewer: Were there tryouts? Did everyone get a part they wanted? Or, did you…
Speaker 1: No, they assigned parts to us. (Indecipherable)I know Now gave me the leading part in that one, and a girl I went to school with, she was so mad because I got it and they got another play and had another little play at the end of ours that night. I’ve always remembered that and I can remember things like that. And they had some things… I couldn’t memorize that stuff now and remember it like I did then, if you give me a Thousand Dollars. They did have lots of things, like different things at school and then it used to be, we always had our alumni dances here. As I say, that was the first one after I got out of school, the first alumni, and the women of the church would serve the meals there at the school, and that was really hard for us (indecipherable) and all the desserts and stuff.
[Side one of tape ends.]
[Side two of tape begins.]
Speaker 1: And it was in the, over there where there is a pretty old brick home, once you come in on 421, on the next street over. Well, at one time there was a, what was called the Laird School, and it was on the order of, oh, I don’t know what you would call it, like a, not a boarding or finishing school, but like a small college. My grandmother went there to school.
Interviewer: L-a-i-r-d?
Speaker 1: L-a-i-r-d. Must have been named for somebody (indecipherable) many years ago. And it was quite a prominent school. They came here from other places. Of course, that …
Speaker 2: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Yeah, somebody that was from around here. But I don’t recall too much about that…
Interviewer 2: Did you ever go to the theater in LaPorte? Did they have anything besides movies at the theater there? (Indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Well, that LaPorte theater wasn’t there when I, that was just built within the last fifty years. That was—was that built while we lived in LaPorte? But they had what they called the Hall’s Opera House. It was on Madison Street, and they really had some good plays. I know my aunt and uncle (indecipherable) and they went to lots of good plays. But then they had afterward, they had the cheap movie houses, but the LaPorte Theater itself wasn’t that, and it’s too bad that they tore that down. It was a shame, because that was a nice…
Speaker 2: That was built in 1922.
Interviewer: The LaPorte Theater?
Speaker 1: Uhm, hm, we were living in LaPorte at that time.
Interviewer: Did any traveling shows ever come down here besides the medicine show? Did you ever…
Speaker 1: Yes, there would be some once in a while. They would have them up in what was called Captain’s Hall, it is now an automobile (indecipherable), but it was a nice, a very nice hall. Had lots of dances there (indecipherable) I remember we, my aunt and I went over to Chicago—oh, it’s been a good many years ago, forty, I think, thirty or forty—and my husband and her, my uncle, had gone fishing up Michigan and we decided to go to Chicago and stay all night and go take in a show and go to Fields and around; and we went to the Morrison Hotel and registered, and when I signed my name and put I was from Westville, the clerk looked up at me and he said, "Westville, Indiana. Do they still have that good dance floor there they used to have?" And I said, "Well, what do you know about that?" And he said, "Well, I used to live around Michigan City, and I’ve danced there a good many times." And I was so surprised that somebody in Chicago—that was... Oh, they’d come from all around here then and went to dances. They had public dances, and square dances, square dances and all.
Speaker 2: We had two or three good (indecipherable) in Michigan City. The Cook’s and the (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: That was later.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable)
Interviewer: That was the big band time?
Speaker 1: I don’t know. I’ve got, there was a teacher that lived near, Irene Reed, would be a good one. She could remember, she taught here for a while and she went to school here. She came in on the bus that was driven by horses too till they got the other (indecipherable). And she probably could tell you, might recall (indecipherable). I just can’t think right now. (Indecipherable) These are all ads. I think most of these ads are from LaPorte. I don’t think they had those in Michigan City, but she had (indecipherable), Valparaiso, Carson’s, (indecipherable) someplace.
Interviewer: Westville didn’t have a big business center in the town?
Speaker 1: No, they had two general stores, they called them. You could buy oh, some clothing and shoes and men’s, farmer’s overalls and boots and things like that and then groceries, all kinds of groceries. More grocery stores than we have here today. (Indecipherable), but, as I say, we would go to Michigan City. Or Valparaiso, we went there quite a bit, too (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: Did more people have gardens in their backyards than in Michigan City?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Interviewer 2: So they would grow more (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Oh, yes, we (indecipherable). Well, we still have a garden up here, and we always had a garden. Nearly everybody. Even gardens my dad had, a strawberry patch. When he had the horses, he had the barn at the back of our lot till he built the garage, always kept a couple of horses.
Interviewer: Did everyone have a horse here? Was there a livery stable in town?
Speaker 1: There was a livery stable, two livery stables in town when I was growing up.
Interviewer: Did most people have their own horses?
Speaker 1: No, not all of them, but they could rent horses from them, that’s what they used to. They’d go to Michigan City on (indecipherable).
Speaker 3: Did you tell them about that stagecoach place south, you know that big house down there across from Randy’s, the stagecoach…
Speaker 1: Yeah, there used to be a stagecoach going through there, south from Westville. Wasn’t Mr. Matott’s father one of them that drove the stagecoach?
Speaker 2: I don’t know.
Speaker 1: One of our druggists we had one time, Mr. Matott, his father lived out—well it was out near our Westville cemetery, lived out that way (indecipherable) Valparaiso. And he was the stagecoach driver and he had a stop here and one at Door Village.
Speaker 2: Door Village (indecipherable).
Interviewer: It would go into LaPorte then?
Speaker 1: Yes, (indecipherable)
Interviewer 2: How many people were riding the stagecoach (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: I don’t remember that. That was a little bit long a time, a long time ago.
Speaker 3: From what I see of pictures in the movies, not over four or five I don’t imagine.
Speaker 1: No, I don’t think very many could get in, like a double seat, you know. Some people had buggies like that, didn’t they? I think Uncle Roy did once, where you could face each other and the seats just (indecipherable) packed. I think Dr. Craybell had one of those. That was before my time, but I heard (indecipherable). And then we didn’t have any Carnegie Library here at that time, but this aunt of mine I was telling you about, the doctor’s wife, she had (indecipherable) she had been a teacher, she was interested in that and some of the women got together and Dr. Craybell donated what was his office in their yard for a little library. And, oh, to me that was the biggest treat to go over there with my aunt and take care of. Just a small building, but it was fixed us real cozy, and I think they had a thousand books and that was an awful lot at that time, but then somebody got to working on this Carnegie Library and they got it started.
Speaker 2: There was a library in 1913.
Speaker 1: Library, Carnegie Library. I don’t remember. It was a long time ago, and I just remember the name.
Interviewer: What kind of books did you like to read when you were younger?
Speaker 1: Oh, any kind of books, I liked books a lot. My husband laughed at me last week because I watched Black Beauty on the…
Speaker 3: Oooh, that’s a classic (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: And I really thought that (indecipherable) that was good, very good (indecipherable). But my uncle always—I think he gave us that book when we was kids (indecipherable). I didn’t know it had been on before, but Annie says they watched it before. No, I liked reading, and I liked that in school, including history, and all, but no mathematics (indecipherable) history. I got through by the skin of my teeth, I guess, but I made it, but I didn’t like it.
Interviewer 2: Do you remember like what it was like when people first started buying automobiles? Was it really a rare occurrence to see this?
Speaker 1: Yes, it was, quite.
Interviewer 2: Did they, what was it like?
Speaker 1: Well, I think Coulter’s were the first ones here to try an automobile, I think.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: I don’t believe there was one before then. They first had a livery stable and then they…
Speaker 2: We had two livery stables.
Speaker 1: Yeah, one was Coulter’s, one was Williams, but a …
Interviewer: (indecipherable) Were women allowed to drive their own (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Oh, some of them did. Of course, some—no, I didn’t, but we had our own—a lot of them had their own horses. Of course, my dad did (indecipherable).
Interviewer: Were there a lot of things, now you hear of women’s liberation, were there set rules that you had to follow when you were growing up that you couldn’t do that (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Well, my dad…
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Well, my dad was a little strict with us, but then we, I want to say not that strict, but (indecipherable) Victorian times (indecipherable). No, when I see these kids now getting ready for the junior senior receptions, that they always have a very nice one here. We used to always have this at school and they spent days and weeks getting ready for it. And now I think the one ours was when we graduated, one of the junior girls had a party, and she lived with her aunt and uncle out in the country. She had a party out there and another girl, one of my classmates, and one of the juniors, and I think I was still (indecipherable) in a horse and buggy. And I was expect we were home before, long before eleven o’clock. Then I think they stay out all night now, these things they do (indecipherable).
Speaker 3: Well, they did then, too. We did on theirs, those old days, there was nothing different.
Speaker 1: We didn’t stay out all night. We were back home, I think, by ten. What I mean they don’t so much. We probably went out there and played some games and had ice cream and cake and something. We didn’t get to (indecipherable). But we didn’t know any different. We had a lot of fun. (Indecipherable)
Interviewer: Did high school kids date a lot (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Not to my knowledge. We did—I don’t know, we had good times together all of us. I think there was four boys from our class, four or five, and the rest girls. There was 11 in the class. Something about that (indecipherable) But we didn’t have (indecipherable). I think it was about 1920 or ’21 the first time (indecipherable).
Interviewer 2: What was the most exciting things that happened in those days?
Speaker 1: So long ago, I can’t remember.
Interviewer: Airplanes, or…
Speaker 1: No, there wasn’t any airplanes then.
Interviewer: What is your favorite memory of growing up (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Well, I don’t know. I’d always—I liked it, I had lots of good friends, and we had lots of relatives here then. My mother’s family was a big family, and my father, too, came from Springville Township and had relatives all around here. He came from a family of 12 children. My mother was six or seven in her family.
Interviewer: Did you have a lot of family parties?
Speaker 1: Yes. In the summer we had family reunions and picnics. I think people really had to make their own fun then more, make--to get together, you know, relatives and everything (indecipherable). Still, I was just telling her we had so much better train service than now if you wanted to go into Chicago or anything. I remember when we used to go into Chicago, my mother and my aunts, and we’d go in and come home on the midnight train. See a show and shop, and come home on the midnight train. (Indecipherable) get a train out here now unless you jumped on a freight train.
Speaker 3: There’s something else interesting. Of course, it is not my big mouth, but I’m not a native to this part of the country. I’m from southern Indiana, but the thing that strikes me is when we came to Westville—my husband was with the hospital, you know, on the staff—you had to be careful what you said around anybody, you know, because they’re sort of intermarried, you know; and everybody’s related to somebody else, and you had to keep your mouth shut. I know I got my ears knocked down several times because I’d, "well, that’s my dog (indecipherable)."
Speaker 1: Well, I had quite a few relatives, but I asked my cousin…
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) let me tell my story. (Indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Well, I had a lot of aunts…
Speaker 2: (indecipherable). (Laughter)
Speaker 1: Well, my cousin, Lois (indecipherable), I used to live at, used to live at this house in Michigan City, where you say your office is now. They lived there for a while, and they lived at one time on Washington Street, near the old—what’s that church—Congregational?
Interviewer: Yes.
Speaker 1: …Church, right where the Seymour’s lived. They lived there at one time (indecipherable). Well, anyway, she moved away from here, moved down to the southern part, down around Snyder, Indiana; and she taught for a while and then she got married and then she come back here at one time. Her aunt (indecipherable) and her husband, of course, had never met any of us, (indecipherable). The next time he found out all the relation he had and he went downtown after a while down to the circle or something, and he says, "You know, I spoke to everybody I met on the street because I just figured it must be some of your relations. (Indecipherable)(Laughter) Oh, there used to be another small school out here, just where that trailer park is now, the Kriesel School. That was a good school. This cousin of mine (indecipherable) she went there (indecipherable) till eighth grade.
Interviewer: Was this a small town school?
Speaker 1: Uh-huh. Pinhook had one. Oh, there were several of them around here. That’s one reason we didn’t have more at that time attend here, because they went there till eighth grade. Of course, then they came here. If they were going to high school, they came here or LaPorte or Michigan City.
Interviewer: Were they accepted by the kids at school, all the girls at Westville, or were they (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Oh, no. I think they were accepted, as far as I know all of them were (indecipherable).
Interviewer: You said that the town, everybody was intermarried and you were close-knit community then?
Speaker 1: Well, I don’t know, there were just so many. It seemed like, especially I know of ours, there was a lot of, a lot of, you know, relations; but a ….
Interviewer: Was this a German community?
Speaker 1: No, not particularly. (Indecipherable) Germans here.
Speaker 3: There’s a lot of Polish people living here.
Speaker 1: Now there are, more than there used to be.
Speaker 3: Did they live here and there when (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Um-hmm, a lot of them lived, an awful lot lived around Otis. There still are some (indecipherable). Not too many.
(Indecipherable)
Speaker 1: No, I think it was just a general …
Speaker 2: We had districts, more districts than townships (indecipherable). Otis District No. 1. (Indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Of course, Otis after they had the largest church now, they had a Catholic school. They had a very good Catholic school there for a while. It has just been in the last few years that they didn’t (indecipherable)
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) Otis.
Speaker 1: (indecipherable)
Interviewer 2: Did you ever have any (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: I don’t remember, and we didn’t miss as much school as I told her as they do now. We must of had to get there someway, I don’t know.
Interviewer: How were people taught in grade school (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Not especially, no. They’d have to use horses.
(More than one person talking at the same time.)
Speaker 1: We had sleighs, you know, and bobsleds. Oh, we used to take lots of bobsled rides. That was fun. Go to somebody’s house for a party or something to eat.
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: No, not ever, you know, knowing television, we didn’t—radio or anything—why that was just what we had.
Interviewer: What was a typical family (indecipherable) then like? After school, you’d come home? Did you have chores to do?
Speaker 1: Well, I usually helped some. I would get out (indecipherable) (Laughter) I always had to help with the dishes, I know that. My mother never let me cook much, but I cooked enough since to make up for all the years that I didn’t. But (indecipherable) in the winter (indecipherable) when I was going to school, take some of my studies home.
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Visiting, reading. My mother used to like to read, too. She used to read out loud to us a lot. (Indecipherable) Playing. (Indecipherable) some of the kids now a days (indecipherable).
Interviewer: What do you think has been the biggest change in Westville? Has it changed that much when you were living here?
Speaker 1: Well, it’s changed quite a bit. There’s so many new, different people now. Of course, I’m, we’re the older generation.
Speaker 3: I think (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: Oh, we never thought so.
Speaker 3: Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course, you came away from there. (Indecipherable)
Speaker 3: I know that over at the hospital there on the grounds, they just turned their noses at any number of us.
Speaker 1: Of course, there’s a lot of—some people, men at the hospital came here, but I (indecipherable)
Interviewer: When did the hospital come here?
Speaker 1: 1954.
Speaker 3: ’51 it was.
Interviewer: Was there a lot of opposition to the town people?
Speaker 1: Well, the man that sold them the land didn’t want to sell it. He was made because he had to sell it.
Interviewer: What was it? Farmland?
Speaker 3: Yes, it was rich farmland.
Speaker 1: Very rich farmland. He was so mad he even said he’d better fence in the whole town (indecipherable) mental hospital. But at that time, no, I don’t think that …
Speaker 3: It’s nothing to what it’s going to be now.
Speaker 1: Now, I’m so sorry they’re making a prison out of it now. (Indecipherable) quite a bit of opposition to that (indecipherable)
Speaker 3: Michigan City will be down here entirely eventually, the prison. (Indecipherable)
Interviewer: You had new people, new people came in after Beatty, but then, like you said, there was a lot of opposition?
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 3: I didn’t know they did.
Speaker 1: Of course, I wasn’t …
Speaker 3: I started the Methodist Church down there and you know, it was hard, very hard, to get acquainted with people.
Speaker 1: We lived...
Speaker 3: I still don’t know a lot of people here at Westville, and I’ve been down here 16 years.
Speaker 1: Well, there’s a lot of them now. I don’t know people that go to church. I go to school over here to thing, I don’t know half of the people, and I’ve always tried to keep up with school things, because I enjoyed going. I don’t have any children myself, but I always enjoyed going to things (indecipherable). There’s a lot more people. There’s more—we don’t have as many stores as we used to have. We only have one grocery store, a drug store.
Speaker 3: That’s because people have cars that they…
Speaker 1: They all go now…
Speaker 3: …get your food cheaper.
(Several people speaking at the same time.)
Speaker 1: Shopping centers and get a chance to get away for a little while or something. But there did used to be more stores and things like that, four doctors.
Interviewer: What do you think (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: Oh, I don’t know, I should think keep right on going. I think it will get larger. (Indecipherable) I don’t know about the school. I’m glad they kept the school here so far, but I don’t know just what that (indecipherable) going to be. There’s talk of consolidating with South Central and different things (indecipherable).
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: I don’t know exactly. I wouldn’t know. I could call Carol. She’d probably know. It is a lot larger school, and I have a niece that’s a secretary. She’d probably know the enrollment.
Interviewer: (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: (indecipherable) I don’t know how many school buses?
Speaker 3: There’s seven.
Speaker 1: Seven school buses now. It’s quite a large school. But this Laird School I spoke about, that was supposed to be a very well known school (indecipherable). Graduated teachers (indecipherable), several of them went to West Point. I have a friend that her son is in Germany now He’s a lieutenant colonel now (indecipherable).
Interviewer: I have one more question, and it’s about religion in the schools. I know they used to have, most schools in the early 1900s had bible readings in these schools, which you can’t have now because there is a law against religion in the classroom. Did you have that? Did you?
Speaker 1: We didn’t have too much of that (indecipherable), and I know now you can’t (indecipherable). But we didn’t have too much of that, mostly some certain holiday like Christmas or Easter or something, we had (indecipherable).
Interviewer: (Indecipherable) have any time for religious studies when you were in the classroom?
Speaker 1: No. No, we didn’t have much of that (indecipherable).conflict between those who belonged to one church and one of another (indecipherable). Some of the things that I suppose I should remember I just can’t remember these things (indecipherable).
Speaker 3: You only had about two churches here, though. There was the Methodist Church…
Speaker 1: Well, at one time we had a Catholic Church and a Lutheran Church, and a Methodist, and a Christian. The old—I don’t know was it that old building that was torn down when you first moved over there?
Speaker 3: Was that American Legion a church at one time?
Speaker 1: That was a Christian Church.
Speaker 3: That was a Christian Church?
Speaker 1: Uh-huh, yeah. And then it was an old building that the school used to use for a shop (indecipherable) after. It at one time was a Catholic Church first, and then the German Lutherans bought it and before they built, oh, long before they built that new church up there on 421. And there was the Christian Church and the Methodist Church has been here a long time. (Indecipherable)The Christian Church was quite an active church at one time, too. I don’t know.
Interviewer: Was this town (indecipherable) you know, a very nice (indecipherable) as it was to grow up in a town this size?
Speaker 1: Well, I thought it was a nice town to grow up in. (Indecipherable). I think there’s just three that passed out of my class that are gone.
Interviewer: Did most of your class stay here?
Speaker 1: No, two of them were teachers. Well, one of them moved to LaPorte. She was a teacher in LaPorte a long time. She died about five or six years ago. Then one lives in Valparaiso that was a teacher. Then I have a friend out in the country, (indecipherable) was a teacher. I think there was two, three of the boys and two girls (indecipherable). First our class started out larger than that, but some of them didn’t finish high school.
Unable to identify speaker: (indecipherable).
Speaker 1: No, she’s still over in LaPorte somewhere. (Indecipherable) she calls me about once a year at Christmas time. She reminisces about all these old things, when we went to school and we just thought we had a lot of fun.
Speaker 3: I think we did.
Speaker 1: But as I say we didn’t own a radio, phonographs and our piano and organ at home was (indecipherable) music, except the things that we went to. Chautauqua would come here once in a while from Chicago in the summertime. We’d have (indecipherable) up in the school yard we had that.
Interviewer: You had a show, was it?
Speaker 1: Well, they had music, singing, and different things like that. It was a tent show but it was just so good. I don’t know as I think they used to have it in LaPorte, too; but (indecipherable). No, I think that you could have interviewed Irene Reed down there (indecipherable).
Interviewer: Well, there’s quite a few topics we are interested in besides education (indecipherable), on old ways of preserving and preparing foods, you know old family recipes, the history of (indecipherable), religious and ethnic (indecipherable) that type of thing. Just a number of topics (indecipherable) transportational history (indecipherable) we’d like to know.
Speaker 1: Most of the time Westville gets in the paper mostly when they have a little scandal or something up here. They could always rip that out. We used to always say that about-- if there was anybody that ever lived here once in their life and something, and it wasn’t god that happened, they never was from anywhere around, but it was always from Westville, and my dad used to say that. My cousin come out here once, we hadn’t had a reunion for a long time, and he said, "I’d like to get a history of this town." (indecipherable) Oh, my dad says, "don’t do that, don’t go through (indecipherable) you’re likely to find some horse thief. Well, it was kind of wild at one time, I guess. I think they had, like I said, I think they had four saloons here at one time. They had more saloons than they had churches.
Speaker 3: I imagine Ruth Cassidy because (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Yes, Ruth Cassidy would be good, too.
Speaker 3: Yes, she’s…
Speaker 2: (indecipherable)
Speaker 3: She was our librarian then.
Speaker 2: (indecipherable) schools.
Interviewer 2: (indecipherable)
Speaker 2: South Central (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: (indecipherable) he librarian for a long time and she has—I called her the other day (indecipherable – two people speaking at the same time) literature down at the library and she told me about this book (two people speaking at the same time, but only Speaker 1 is clear) that she had here, but I don’t (indecipherable) She was sick in bed at the time, so anyway… indecipherable)
Interviewer: (indecipherable) Westville (indecipherable)?
Speaker 1: I don’t think so, I think it’s been all right to live here. (indecipherable)
Interviewer 2: How did you find out about the political (indecipherable) if you didn’t see them on television or radio, how would you (indecipherable), how would you (indecipherable)
Speaker 1: Well, some, but we didn’t hear near as much about it as we do now, but they was. Oh, they’d go round and make speeches and go to LaPorte or someplace and have something like that, but we didn’t hear nothing like we do now with the television. (indecipherable)
Interviewer: Was the Suffragette Movement very strong here?
Speaker 1: No, but I remember (indecipherable)
Interviewer: Were you pro-suffragette?
Speaker 1: Oh, I didn’t really pay much attention to that (indecipherable) Oh, there was stuff about it in our little paper, our weekly paper, and things like that, but not… There was some talk about it but not too much. As I say, I think I lived in a pretty good time in my childhood. There wasn’t many wars at that time or anything too much that, just to disturb you (indecipherable). It was a different time, like this one. A hundred years from now they will look back and think that we lived in kind of a fun time too. You’d think a lot of them would think now I’ll be 80 years old this month, and never
(Tape ends abruptly)