T1^ i s inte--view too' c c I a,^° ^ t !'.r. Herbst' s

z,.-enin~ of near Ro 1 11 n:" rairie on the ~"1 C7~o interviewer

:~ . e-~' aunf t., ~ 2`~, 1~~. T1^. i. ~was Jerrold G,astafson.

"-: 1'11 first of all ask you to rake the principal breeds of work horses, their characteristics and tl-~Ie differences between them and also to de-crib-- the differences between these kinds of horses and West---n, or riding horses. H: Okay, the two major breeds of work horses we use around rlere are the i ercheron and the Belgian. Now in other areas of the country tl~ey've got Shires and a few Clydes. Now Cl-3esdales isn't really.a work horse - its more of a snow horse, a town horse. The Shires I don't know a lot about, they're a bi_g horse but thev're not popular in this area. The Percheron and Bel-fans are both used for farm work in this area, mainly the belg1an - its the predominant horse. Temperment, possibly, is one thing to do with it, personally I'm a Eelgian man. The peo-ole that own Percherons swear by 'em, they're a little more lively horse, a little bit more for show I think, than they are for farm work usually. The Belgian is a more even-tempered, a slower horse, and they'll just go all dalr long, get more .~!ork done without gettin J as tired. Nor-r:^all y color is the difference that most people see. A Percheron horse is grezr or black and as t'--ey get older the grey ones turn white. Your Belgians are a sorrel or bay horse, a lot of blonde sorrels, real li7ht sorrels. Size wise I'd say anirmore they're about the same very little difference between the Belgian and the Percheron, there is a little bit different conformation, but it takes an experienced horseman, really, to !_-~now the difference just by con-formation.

JG: ',^ihat- are tie sizes of tl-1esee horse", what do tt'_°y weiesih`;

H: 0'`_a,,l, really -`^ere's 1Tlore than one size. The horses t'.er L1sCre,all;r to wor'i with I'd say now run bet,,,Teen 16 and 18 hundred y owns, those are the ones that the farmers like the Amish keep because the met a. little more viork done. i~:ovr the show horses, t1l~e ones that peocle raise for show, most of ' em al -L weigh a ton, they'll 7,et up to 24- hundred pounds a piece. But those show horses aren't really too :rood to _-et any work done except for a short time. They're so bid their can't last all day in the field. JO` : Because of the size? AJF : Yes, because of the -reat hu;Te size of them, their "et tired quicker. Their heart has to work harder to pump the blood throughout this massive body. JG : And how bi- would say a ridin horse go? AH: No ways near as big. A good sized riding horse will be 750, 800 pounds; a bi- person likes a horse of about 1000 to 1200 pounds for riding. If they ~et anv bigz;er than. that they're so doggone wide they're not comfortable to sit on. T,;ow there are a few people that ride draft horses, the Belgians and Percherons,but they don't ride them fairly often or for very long periods at a time because they're not a comfortable riding horse, your legs are spread so far apart. JG: Another question I have is whir would a farmer use these big work horses instead of say oxen or mules? What are the advantages? AH: C21-ay, row the oxen is an extremely slow and quite often dumb animal. Its much easier to train and. to work a horse rather than an oxen. And speed wise tr:ere's no comparison, an ox is just 3, slow movinanimal. They're not a dependable animal, if they feel -3-3

11he '-~Iork1_nr-- i'~p-' 11 do the 'vJOr'.~, Gut 1f they don't you can't make lt,-ham. Nov.,, ±'h°ra a=° a. few people t1'"_a t uses mules yet and you r'et a 1:~;;r tha is -of _. =`ocd team of 1':iles, he'll really swear by ' em. but or tr,e most part you'll find a lot more peocle that swear at the males. They're a., a mule is a different `animal al together. I don't think they're a pretty animal to the ;D;eneral public, that mi-ht "De ore reason 1;rhy t'-:ey're not popular. In so?mie -parts of the country their are used, in the real hilly rou.7h country there's quite a few mules used yet, but they're not a popular animal throughout, in a wide area. Thats probably just because they're not a pretty animal and they're a little bit more tempermental than a work horse. JG: Are horses intelligent? How would you place them in intelligence? AH: Well, in farm animals, my experience has been they're probably the smartest general farm animal. You'll find other people that'll disc.--ree with ya. Their say, "Any anirlal that'll work that hard ain't too smart." And you know I've even heard di fferert thin-Es, where they say that a hog is a smart anirri_a1. And I know that hogs ain't smart. You know if you work around ' em, you'll know it real quick. I think horses are one of the more intelligent of the farm animals. There's other animals in zoos like monkeys anal. stuff that are more intelli`ent. A_ coon I would say is more intel_ligert, but you know they're not farm animals. JG: What is the 1 i fespa n of a. horse`. AH:: TheAr live to be quite old, 36, 37 I s'pose there's even some that are 40 years old. Thats not the general life, usually when a. horse does 1 arse or something he's shipped to the K;utchers. And so the average horse don't die of old age. Eut given a chance to live out their .full lifespan I s'pose the average horse lives to

2.:OL1t 25, 3C1. cTC r oul d - Cu -r P2.1-, `'-.N 7irears down i ntc ,-?ha t '' _, =,s thpvr are CC-evelcp i ng,, `J;'haZ -,,,ears are l'na~i best -for '7L"h GnC- sC1rr i: AH• C~a, -, _~~ ~. ;rea..-11n~ or a.s a 2 ;rear ofd 1.. a. Vocd tL~'te to start training 'em. They're not mature encuEh to work hard as a rule, but its a real good time to tra7_n ' em. cecause they're young, they learn fast and tbey're not to the point where they know their real strenEth. You :7 of to admit that the horse s stronger than -ou so v ou -:,o t to out-smart him. If he doesn't knova how strong he is then its a lot easier to train him as a 1 and a 2 year old. A 3 year old, a lot of 'em bet pushed a little bit too hard and ruined. They'll o7o lame because they're overworked as 3 and 4 year olds. But you car work them fa.irlv- hard. as a 3 year old, 4 year old. I'd say about 1 years old a horse is a.l most corpletely mature. Between. 5 and 7 is when they really reach complete 100 percent mat ur_ty arid thats when they really reach their pea!_ as far as heavy work and long hours. And then their' 11 last till they're 15 real good without slcwin' down any. Some horses' 11 still be loin' strong at 20, but I would say between ; years anal 15 are really the best years of a horse's life. They can be pushed the hardest and they'll hold up without comic J up lame or somethin`. jG: And then after 15 would be the declinin, years? AH: Ri`l.t. I wol.,.ld_ say that they're still. `ood but t':e;r're on their downhill slide. Ch, I would say a. 15 4-ear old horse is probably like a 50 year old man, .he can still do a lot of work, but 'lie ain't V onna do a lot of work for another 30 years. So I'd say that's about the comparison. JG : Okay, as far as breakirand training: a yo-ung horse into the _r__r_ J

field, to _''o oll"t ar: ., '.'~Or~ lt''1 t.l.e ectiii~-l'hent, 'what, - O ~'OLi rave to d_ O in o_der t0 '~_=_'' t'-,at abC',t?

f'~:2.~r, n0rrf_~_!.l;r ;ova start ,,,hen the,F'.e 2 or 3 weeks old. You taut a nab to r Or ' em ar_d suite i fellr tie ' em tip. Cet ' e"°1 used t0 beil'1:° tied and lead a 1 idle, to w'ere ~. ou can lead. ' em around wi Cp 2 t'Il

h al te= 4,n! a 1-ad r s .^e0--le don't d0 too n:Lich with

'Tthen '...Oot~y ' em after that urtil thev become 2 gear o 1 ds. Dlysel f , I like to start ' e_r: as year 1 in`s and break them to drive, put 'em in a light cart or a bu:- -;% , just teach ' erg the basics, you know, to "get up" and ''whoa" and to turn left and right which is ".Jee" and "haw." ,?,.,st g,et them to where they work singly, and doubly as a team, and then leave ' ern co urtil they're 2 . And then as 2 gear olds you can start workin' ' em with. li?ht, well you car. rout ' em with older, more experjerced horses on a liht outfit and _=et a da.~;s work out of ' em. Thel% don't really pull their whole load like the rest of ' em but ~; cu can ~,e t quite a lot of work cut of a 2 year old if you don't push them too hard. After they've spent a sumrler with t'r=e older horses they're pretty well broke. A lot of people take like one young horse and one old horse and hook 'em toF;ether, you know, wait till they're 3 years old and hook 'em together. Its not a bad method if the horse is quiet, but if the 3 year old hasn't been handled before he's --onna have a lot of life in 'im, tear up a lot of equipment, even viith that old horse beside 'im before he settles dorm anc' Eoes to work. I'd rather have 'em broke before I hook 'em to the good stuff. There's no use tearing up your equipmert just to break 'em. As a rule they're not t':at hard to break really. Draft horses have a quiet Oispositicn. _uieter than a riding horse. They don't .=et as el-ccited, and by not

'et ~ln` e.'_Clted 1__°y d.On't nornal ly tear th Ins u_7 l-lie a saddl e h0="ce. I-,TOu u-` c: ha-^ness O11 a sad':, a horse a-d hooked him to a. bu_-"„y ar.:T too=k ' im d0~:v`n the road I'd alI?"_Ost `uarantee 1t that if he hadn't did it y.efore he'd probably tear somet=nlng up. A lot of draft horses ,~,- 0'~ can hook them Lip the first tire and take Off, you 1=row, under a controlled sitLlatlon, you don't "J:!nt -to just put the whole family in a wason and take off down the road, but if you've -,o t, an old horse beside a young horse, quite often you can take right off the first time without any 1~roble,;s. JG: How do you make a young horse that probably welEhs twice what ,-ou do, how do you discipline them to make 'em do that stuff? AH: Well, depending at what stage you're at in the game, when. VOu're just teaching them to lead and tie, you always make sure you've o;ot a -ood heavy halter or. 'em and a stout post to tie 'em to. When they don't want to do it they just pull until they fall down, and after.they do that a couple times they think, "I feel something pullin' on me, I might as well Live up, because its stronger than rme." At that point in their life that ro)e is stronger than them, but then -ive 'em 2 or 3 more years and if they tried the same thin`; theAT'd bust the rope. As a rule they'll never trAT it again after they first learn that they can't pull awaAT from somethin' , glen the;T' 11 stand. Now when you start actually wcrkin' with ' em 1 i ke on a wa_,on or discln' or plowin' its good to have ~! our lines pretty 'sandy, ever. when v-ou're resting VOU want to have ' a hold of the lines, to where the-T're `oirg to start to walk off., riven a chance and if you -of hold of t'_be lines ~Tou can rull back anc'_ stop ' em right there. They learn quite easy with that bit in their mouth that if tney start to walk off and ~lou pull on ' em

t%?^ts = o.^_na hu^t i f t'~e~r ~;:-o.l ~ off , so t',-ey're just c:-cnna stand t- -re.

R'n es, l ~s.rr r~,i ~~ rl ltr . If yn_: don't 1 e t t:^_eim do U.r 1~r t'~1Y'L wronE the first e ,r ~ '~P + ;na to have any ~rc-) blem, Eut row if you're out say out LWCwln?' and you Stop at the end of ti'_e furow and want to give the hoses ~,~ breather so vou `.e t off and y c over and 1 a_y dorm under a shade tree then the horse takes a couple steps and you yell

"',Jhoa:" a_r,d he Treecs on Voin- cause you haven't ~rot 'a hold of the

1 _i_res az^.d can't yet to ' em, well he's just lia'c:l a to take off run n i nE for the house, and from then on ycvro'oa.bl y all tire rest of that horse's life you're going to have to watch 'im, but if he never wets that after the first time he tries that, if you stop ' im, or say Tr,aybe the first 3 times, chances are he'll never do that

unless theres somet:,in.- unusual that really spooks 'im and then he might jump and run. `.ut even under those circumstances a lot of times you can just yell at ' em and they'll stop, cause the first 3 times they tried it you yelled and pulled back and they had to stop, so they 'near your voice and think, "dell, I cotta stop again; I'm ~;or_na let yanked down."

JG: What makes a horse spook or be skittish?

AH: Okay, that comes under ternperrnent I would say. Temperment and something completely strange. You know some horses are real alert and they're always watching everything. T"ow that i s the type thats more apt to spook or take off running or just jump. Then there are those that are real quiet and docile, treat really don't care whats oing on around them, they just want to vet by. Like if ~; ou're farmin b% side a railroad track and the horse is new to the area and 'iasn't seen too manor trains and you're restin' at to the area and 'iasn't seen too manor trains and you're restin' at the erd of the field. a.nd a train does bv r that loud noise would be

enou'-h to sA-'oo= a lot of horses. Sore horses, all it takes is a colored 1 eaf or a z,iece off paper tlovain' across to where t^ey gust t a=larce of ; " and its en o,i-h to ?rook ' em. It depends on the horse. And t'".°n tlei"e's sor'P horses t"_at won't spook at anything'. Jr : After they've been working= for a while, does it ever seem their er; j of it, act eater to -o out in the field? AF: Ch definitely, the more you work a horse, within limits, you can't -o oiat and work ' im to death and expect him to come up for more the next day, but nor^,T throu-7h the wintertime all we do mostli• is feed the horses, ~rou really don't spend much time workin' 'em. But when. the spring starts the first few days it seems like you ,-otta 7o to a lithe extra trouble to catch ' em cause tneJ're not used to bein' cau ;ht, but then just each day they'll alrost be there to meet'cha when it comes time to harness in the morning, they'll almost be there in tr,e barn ready for ya. But then that might be going along with zrou normally put ' em in the barn and feed ' em, and. then harness 'em. But I do think their become a lot easier to catch in t:e field and everywhere, even if i•ou're not workin' 'err. at that particular time. If you've been worl-in' 'em for maybe 2 or 3 weeks in a row they r;et to where they, I think, enjoy it cause they seem eager to do it. JG: Does teat make ;:;ou feel good? AH : Ch vah, ;rah. You'd much rather have a horse that? ea-er to do what ~) rou want than one that you gotta run down arid catch and then he just seems sulli;r about it. And. there are some horses that are like that, that don't want to 1=a worked. And then all the work in the world, they're not ,goinE to =bet anV r.7ore ea.`;er to do the work. I t ;rives vo;1 a. -,ood -Peel_l ny when you vo out and harness a horse _c_ _c_ ±'nc•r n~r.~ v~ z(!`ll ^(" f.^ t e stand by the ?]~ o',"d av,nd .._ ~ cc_._e L-.i ~._ and a_-os `o over an' lJ__themsel ves, they know that 's "hatyo u're soma C'o .-ndt!'?.e~ T'11 ~~e tt o ,^Tt ^_°r p t,._ 2zr alrl cst do _1;^ ^a-t ' ' almo st do

t:'' Ie wor~ r f or Ypu, ,_ J l._ ~. ~~r e „ really. .1'^a t' s a more experienced horse, 1t takes them a 1 1.ttle

5;,:; le to =...at thc.. t 'Tnowledge and s ?eciall,,J when ~i ou're using ' eI!1 quite a bit 1 tire pl_o~,vir_' for say a week in a row, well theIIr know that at a certain time you' 11 be plowing and they're ~T.etting ready to `et harnessed and you harness ' em up and turn ' em out and they almost g o out by the plow to `et hooked up. JG: V~hat are the commands that a farm horse has to know? A° train one is "Whoa," to stop: Anythin" goes wrong ._. ~y, the C, C,

ya always need 'em to stop. That's the main thing I always work on. "Get up" for start, " ee" would be to turn right and "haw" would be to turn left. Now after you've got ' em doin.V that you ~,et to where trou want them to step over just a step and you'll say "Gee over a step," or "Hay^a over a step," then they'll just sidestep. Then "back up" you want em to know "back." You don't really use back a whole lot but when you're harnessin' up to a wagon if you can, if you're just a little bit too far ahead and if you say, "Back a step," its nice to have ' em do that rather than have to go up front and push ' ern back. JG: Do then catch onto those pretty fast? AH: Some horses, well most horses catch on to them all except maybe. "Back." Now some horses for some reason just don't take readiJ_-,r to backin' up. For ore thinF I don't think it's a natural thing for horse to back, it's so:''lething totally unnatural, you 'arrow, they're used to t:zrninj and going forward and stopping. _ln__ln_ .,

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::!;;''_ -here the sr're 1 174,

e ::a c~rI ii' L:'J sc:.ie hor ses lU.st dci_'t 1=_28 to do I li

lt, ro-w some are, well „_:r Vuy t'^_at' s train in' ' eat will r u-,.-- ' em by 4.,. ^k ir' ' em u-y: in t- D some t-_n - sharp a:.^_d the horse' s fir s t impression tile n `.t time „__^t '.^e's s'.acs°d to start baC'iin~7 ; uy is he's donna v•°_t some thin.s~~„'L~ jaC~_:ed iii ' im, he a.nIt Ec-:-Lna bac'f~, 1 woaldn't back either. That's t~-P GnljT problem you h?.ve- i.zsual l~', the bachin` up. JC : TAT hen 4Tou ` o to buy a horse what do you 1 ook for? How can -% ou pick out a good horse? Let's say you're buying a colt. AH: Cll~=ay a colt is a~ittle different from an older hcrse. For one thin`, 'ra---en ~Tou're buy ing an older '=se they're already .grown up and you don't have to worry about the dumb thins they can do as they're ;,young. But mainly you look for a good lookin' colt, a well formed, well boned colt. The general appearance, to start with, is strai7ht legs, good. sound feet, and a real ~7,ood head. The head can preti-y much tell you what the horse is going to grow up to be disposition wise. You need them feet and legs under ' em, you know, to :vet the work done. But the head means just as much to me in a young colt as the feet and le-s. JG: Do their heads vary that much? AH: Oh yah, there's a, just in the general shape of the heads, you can tell., you know, whether they're going to be a little bit spooky or a real calm quiet horse. They can really tell you a lot if you 'Know what you're lookin' at. Just it the -,,%.!a1T the head is formed . The way the ears are set on the head, t',e way the eyes are set. Strai ,~?7 ht. If t:--_ef've ~ot a pretty head, you wouldn't think

be i n-= pretty wool -d have anything to do with it, but a good flat forehead and the whole front :'art of the horse's face if it's nice

_11 a nd flatf '',__'_'~ ears are set : 1_de apart and t`1e eyes a --re set in a pleas a.n t manner, us,,-,ally the horse is -orna be quiet, an ea-7er

to--- 1 ease t'rne a_^1-"".al,, %P:'hil a if thev've rot .`tea t'or. a2'1 nose w' _ch 1s _ ~ " ~ ni, a hump or, '~'~eir -nose, or a dish-f2.ced forehead that bot%,s in instead

of beincflat or 1f they've got a forehead t'-:at bul~'es out, that can tell -% ou if they're ---oinE to have a tendency to be a lit -I.'le bit balky.

JG: Is t"^at a result of their breeding? Does a better bred horse have a flat forehead?

AH: Not all the time, there are several guys that breed for that good head, but so many guys breed for so many different type things and voi.z've cot so many different type breeders. Cne guy'll breed for nothin' but size, you know, if the horse is big - breed to it. And you'll end up line breeding, like a mother to a son to get a great bi, hu7e horse and they don't care too much about a well formed head. That's when you get ~rour bad heads, when you line breed, as a rule, unless you're lucky and you've got real good blood linesa rule, unless you're lucky and you've got real good blood lines that you're line breedin~V. Then other people breed strictly for a good big foot on a horse, well if that's all you're lookin' at you don't notice much else. T"_`aybe the horse has a less than perfect head, but he's <-,ot a good foot so you try breeding to it. And specially if it's a stallion that you're doing all the breeding with and he's got the bad head, well maybe you're breeding 25, 35 head of mares to him a year and you're gonna not really know forhead of mares to him a year and you're gonna not really know for 3 or 4 years t'_^e real end results of how well his colts are gonna turn out, so you can --et ? or 3 hundred horses with bad heads but real good feet. So all breeds have good headed horses and bad headed horses, all breeds have horses that are spooky and jumpy

and st'"ibborr-, t'~en a11 breeds have that horse that, unless.. he's tau:Jht so.e t'_^. ~_r.` ba_, i s. ;,;s t naturally acod. JG: Nhat else would you leol~ for 1n buying a colt:? AH 5%Vel l t,--p- bite, i_: a yol:,n~ horse they've got a lot of -rowin to do and their teeth h~.ve mot to come to`ether even to be able to chew 7,rass. Tf ~rou've Jet a ,orse that's mot an overbite or an underbite, their teeth don't match, so you put 'em out in pasture and the-,T can't chew ~rass properly. If the grass is real hi-h then can mana7e to Met it but if the .Mrass is down a bit they go hun-7ry because t?1ev can't let that short .grass. So you want a good bite on a young, horse. On an old horse you can tell bar the condition they're in if t'_Ley've got a good bite because a horse that's Mot an excessive amount is gonna be in poor condition. The back is something you want to i;ind of watch in a -young horse when you're buying. You don't want a real long backed colt, because they have a tendency to break down. Where a short back they have less wei.Jht pulling down on their backbone. JG: What do you mean by break down? AH: Well, they'll get sway backed. There's some swaybacked horses that can do a lot of work but you won't find many of 'em cause see those back legs are pushing into them shoulders and if -you've ~=of a big old bow in the backbone, some of that power's gonna keep on pushing that backbone crooked. So if you start out witri a short backed colt, he's gonna be short backed when he .gets full grown. When he's pushing its a strai~w-ht ahead push, it's not throu`---h a swayed back. JG: Let's ,-av trou're buying. an oi_der horse. AF: Ah, there .,ou ray closer attention to the condition of the feet

and le_?S cause see w:,_i l C they're rowin' up they can ,-et into 2.11 ores of L'°nces machirery. Tthey can do a lot of da!nay`e to themselves I _ 7

Which is, t'nere' s nothing yol;_ Ca.n do about it, that's why it's kind of bad to b1.'zj a colt, cause 7CU've 2 of 2 years to take a_ chance on him hurtin' hirself. ',Then you `et ar older horse what you've Jot to look o't for is ti^`'t he hasn't hurt himself and that if he has, robody's tryin7 to cover it ~~p. Look to make sure he hasn't had his feet split out on the inside bad or bowed tendons. You've just got to make sure all his legs are in good shape then, cause if they're not good then they're never going to ~,et any better on a mature horse. While on a colt if zTou have a little bit wrong with the legs there's a chance of strai;_htin' 'em up. If he's a little bit cow-hocked or pigeon-toed - by trimming their feet properly you can straighten them legs up. But an old horse, one that's mature like 6,'7 years old, once they're that old it's bad on a horse to try and correct crooked legs because you're just, you're gonna bow the tendons, you're not gonna straighten the bores. The bones are already as mature as they're =-onna .bet, you can't straighten them out that way. So I'd say the feet and legs are more important in the older horse. JG: What are the normal foods that you give horses? AH: Oka.y, normally you'l11_ have - well you've got all sorts of things corn and oats and hay, plus the pasture. Summertime I like to feed more oats because it's ;`ot a higher protein content in it and I mix all mir food and add supplement anlrway. But I have a higher percentage in the summer of the oats and in the wintertime I put in a higher percentage of the corn, because corn produces more heat and that's what the horse needs in tll~e wintertime. He needs someth;.ngr to keep ' im warm. And the ha\r, the old timers used to say to feed ' em straw -14-

or Ti::~oth~r ray, tie-;r'-a t.r 'ring to `et away -corn that now --cause it's just 1 .ne a='1ythir.~T , else: the bette~c quality feed

:_e hors. „'oli cylve the_Ti the - lestakes and 1^ bette_- it is for tSo they're the e .. s .~ it ~.,e

?ett:1ng it to the better cualitIr hay now than what they used to feed

t:^ie m. A Tood cualitr a;- is ...

.;r Is t'..,:~t a m in 'cod for horses?

^u: Hay? Yes, actual hr in the wintertime you need very little grain unless -ou're workin,~7- t~=em a lot. If they've got plenty of food hay

yo,J can -et awa-\T without feeding anal s-.rain - if they've :vot a real ood ;luali tar hay and plenty of salt. They need salt year round. I'd say the hay is the most important part of a horse's diet, they

need the rou~:-ha7e. You can't take a horse and feed 'im straight grain and have 'im do Vood, he's got, all the stuff that his body needs except the roughage in his stomach. And then you have bowel trouble, its just not a ratural way for a horse to be, to have s trai-ht grain.

JG: That's on 1v in the ,,iirter that you' d keep them on hay, you wouldn't do that in the working season.

All: No, well normally in the working season you've :dot pasture to go along with that. But if you didn't have the pasture you're gonna have to add that hay, cause if you work a horse, say just 8 hours a day of actual field time, that same amount of tire he woul_da' normally been eatin.j hay off ar,d on. And he wouldn't be usinv up

ener:Ty, he'd 'c,e takin7 it in. So --ou've really -;ot to, well you build them up slow ,,,!hen you start, before you start, you build them up to what they'll eat and then you gotta roll the rain to ' em while you're working them. You don't overdo it, but you make sure they're taking in more energy than what they're spending. '- 'Joa.z,,^~,1 ~-;r~~ter. Ho=~v ._-.ch grater do thejr need, in a day? L you, let em nave water ar;r time they want it?

i~_~ : ';i'1G n ~.,% 0~_l're 'irGrkln' ' e_r1 you don't want to --,'1ve 9. hOr se a lot of `;~,!at2r when t_lejr're hot. If the horse isn't wOrkit'1E- they should rave cod fresh grater ail the time. Their won't drink it all the time, 'out, uh, they should. always have access to it. `,then you're out there T.vcr. kin- -theV need a vcod drink in the morning a couple hours or an

hour before yo,,. a:0 cut. After they cool off for lunch, while z~ou're eatin' your lunch trey can have water, the~r should Met plenty of water and t'^,en after they cool off when you get throuVh workin'. And all ni-ht long they should have access to fresh water.

JG: How much would you guess that one mature Belgian eats in one day?

AH: Oh, are you talking about wintertime or when you're actually workin~-a horse?

JG: Let's say like in the summer or spring when -vGl,i're o~.~t working.

AH: OkaAr, nova mine, their have unlimited hay and what they crew is probably, oh, 3/4 of a. bale of hay a day. And I've dot a 10 quart grain pail that I feed ' em morning, noon air.d night so that would be 30 quarts of gain. But now in the wintertime when I'm not vJOrkin' ' em their eat about the same amount of hay, about 3/4 of a bale but the grain would be about 10 quarts a day, just about 1/3 of what the working gain would be. And thev' 11 sta,v r in about the same condition. They'll be a little fat it the spring but their won't lose weight, They'll be a little fat it the spring but their won't lose weight, it'll turn. to muscle when you're workin' ' ern.

JG: What other kinds of care do they need, sa;r the coat, the feet and bode care in =~enera.l?

AH: Cka~l.T, now the coat needs currvin' a lot when t'r,ey're sweaty

or even washed. I 1 ika washing mr;- horses. The :general coat of the -1E

horses, _'`'C -'he C=.r° OI _t '~7'`' °n thAV,'' re sweaty, the s8.l t 1n t:'^ a s'a'd°~.t l iS what f'e~l.~~r r~.',.~~ tc t'_ne coat. C'.li"rv in~ ~ _!, l_Ct Of Cl;WY'~T1Y1' w11 't '~ ' 1t a,,';iay after they're

~•`_ ee t":a.t salt ., Ol_ , it ~Lt=~•` _e.st !~1~_da. fr usi7° Cleaned Lip.

r,he,7_•s_.est ~,^7ay 1s to wash ' em, ;?CL, _:Y_Oz~l, Ir0,.a- can turn .1 ~

the hose on 'em aru wash 'em r~,-' t dorm and 6'. horse tf;_at's washed often has a better 1 oolong coat than one that isn't, so I'm sold on the washi_r-method. It reallir doesn't take ti:at lor- if ,,cu've got rurnin~vater and a hose to just sp ra.y on ' em until the water runnin._; off is clear and then the excess water just scrape off with a sweat scraper or a curry comb. That's basically really all you need. The :pane and tail you have to curry out to keep them from 7ettin~; all matted up. After you've washed 'em and. got the excess water off and curryed the mane and tail that's all their coat needs. Now their feet, dependln:on tree 'type of area thev're in, if they're in a sand lot yoga don't need to worry about their feet too much unless. about drying out. Sandy soil has a tendency to make a. horse's hooves real brittle and dry, and -_n that case you sometimes have to add a hoof conditioner. Clay ground usually yoV don't have anIT problem, cause it's usually more damp than a sandy soil. Now a mucky type so-11, where it's wet and mucky for some reason the long hair around a draft horse's feet, that muck and dirt'll get in there and if it's not got cut it'll actually cause sores. It itches for one thing and the horses'll scratch it and then once they get a sore started it just stars and stays. So especially in mucky soil the bottom of the feet needs cleaning often and the hair around the bottom of the fetlocks needs to be washed often. to get that muck soil away from it. JG: How about shoeing horses, do you normally shoe 'em?

T C.''..-- if U. .1C^.. , not for C:~t''-.e field, i_" -its strict-, ~_r t_`~e

r -; e 1 d a,' ol: ca =_' t ;n1sJ-L•~' a ._Or se hue.^d en0u.J'_1 t-C %,'.^_.°_re ~cie needs shoes . E.ut 1f j%OU'r a C7o1n' Out on the road or I guess hull l ln- 1 o-;s 1n a woods to •;vhere they'r a apt to step on little tree stumps and stuff then: it's necessary to shoe the horse. But just strai,.-ht work on the farm, in t',.e r.Jld - yoi:. don't need shoes. JC : C o,-aid jro~_~ describe the process of putting a shoe on a horse? Ar: Yah, I put quite a few shoes on horses. Ah, to start With.1-ou wanta trim t:')e foot off level, clean it out to where it's level. JG: How do you trim it? Do you use a. file and file it do,,vn? AH: Not normally, because they're usually growed out long enou-h to where ;you've tTot to cut sometimes 2, sometimes 3 inches off to .bet to where the foot should normally be wore down. See, if a. horse is runnin' wild tlIe;T' 11 keep their feet pretty well cut down just from the runninF and everything. They break off to the proper level, but domestic horses, they don't get out there and they don't wear 'em down like that. So you've got to cut 'em down. And they've got regular hoof nippers which is comparable to a ~_reat big fingernail clipper. With that you can get ' em fairly level on the bottom and then you take a rasp anal rasp 'em off to get them perfectly level before yCU put your shoe on. It's important to have them level because if the,,-'re not the foot's going to ':e turned one way or another. That's just like a person, when we wee;r our heels off real bad on a pair of shoes, you know, ;-ou no ways near vfalk normal. And it's even worse on a horse if you 1 eave them shoes on for 3 months you know Its 7oinrc to really hurt his 1 egs from that walking at the wrong ankle all the time. JG: Does that boor their i_egs out?

_1g_ A ^ De -endi n;` on how the shoe is set, yoti '_'':no'~1j, 5°i th -i'otli'1- nor ses s cmetir_'es ` ,~u 1=ave to shoe ' e^!1 - saiT 7' 11ke a % -ar ofd - 1_ his ? c` ev v

are -rett~r crColked, '.not to tl-:e point ti!iere he's totally worthless, but you- hnow it ~r`.%Cl'.ld. look much nicer to st'1-al,__1,Zen ' im. Youn horses 1y ou can straighten their legs a whole ,lot just by bLli ldinpthe shoe up hi!*her on one side or maybe the toe needs to be let dcl/„n more, lift both heels up. There's all sorts of different ways to correct a sli_-ht crookedness in horses' feet. The nailing on of the shoe is fairl-Nr sirp 1 e just if you -;et tree shoe formed ri-ht which is the most important thing and the foot level the nails are gonna 'o in the right spot unless 7rou're a lithe bit careless. Occaisionally everybody'll get a nail in too deep, which'll hurt the horse and ^t'11_ even cause it to bleed. In which case you've got to put peroxide in there to clean tile 1rvound out. And then. ,,rou can either leave that rail out or nail it at the proper a.n

th%" a sad. le horse vecaljse their foot 1c bi Cr;er anC, they '11 :'1GI(9 'e°'! by t'"..er--_sel,ves. ?!"T'hlle ~'ol;a're drivln7- -_he nail -you've yot a h1--er area to a_1=- i'cr ZPJlt.nout htlrtlr` t''?e horse and there's more foot there tn .ra-i1 ~.Q so - a well +ra.l-red horse, a draft horse, is easier than _ G . ~ ~_ 1 _ ~ U. a saddle horse b.1._1-t the others you don't even want to attempt if thelT're a little bit orner-,r when vou're shoeing ' em it's best to put 'em in a stock right off the bat. It's not that it 'iurts them, put 'em in a stock right off the bat. It's not that it 'iurts them, to be shod, it's just that they don't like your picking their foot up, you know they're standing on 3 leis and that's not normal for him. Some of ' er! just resent it.

JG: What do they do in the wintertime, do you i:..se them for any activit-,r?

A.: Ah, we pick a little corn with 'em, but we've usually dot that done by January and then about the only thing you do is play around, 7o for bobsled rides, nothing that really works a horse. You can't do ti-at much in the wintertime really with the horses. You can do a lot, but as far as hard work, the bobsled isn't hard work under normal conditions and you can only do it on weekends, by the time I ;--et home it's generally dark, so weekends is the onl~, T time we use them and then it's just for, oh, if the snow's off, the time we use them and then it's just for, oh, if the snow's off, the roads we'll go for a wagon ride or bobsled ride. tut they don't really work up much of a sweat in the wintertime, that's a time of rest and relaxation for 'em.

JG: Do thelT stay out much, in the wintertime or are they normally in the barn then?

AH: Well my horses are, I never confine them to the barn except for when they're eatin' their -rain. I've ,rot a loafing shed they run in and out. It's surprising how much tlLes% prefer out to in even in the bad snowy weather you'll see ' em out in t'-l.e field just p 1 ay in'

-20^c~,rd ~rc~.L: ;rro~,:~ W~°re's rot:~ing to ear out- there, tlr!eir food's all _^. t'!e oa="r.. ~'n°;= 2.C±''.«;11~r seem to ~fefer the fresh air outside even thou'h i t' s a lot colder and the wind is bl owin ' , wren it gets down t0 Zero and below and there's a hard wind 1roii.' ll see ' em in the barn or ra.ybe they'll be cut behind the barn just out of the wind. :ow t:^ey 1re-i';r that a. lot of tile times to beliI l.r_ ti=a bard. T'h_at's a heal_tlfiy T.~~zz: to '_,--eer a horse, too, by the war, to where they can rrahe their own choice whether they wart in the barn or out of the barn. A wind ^reak is all they really need. 'Jney don't really need. those 4 walls around ' em, if they can Fet cut of t'-,e wind their heavy coat will tare care of 'em. JG: Does the coat =et much heavier in fall and winter? n': Iii-ht, it's much heavier. There's lore hair that grows out and then the short hair next to their body gets real heavy. It's real thick, almost like down on a duck. It's real real heavy. If they go o,;.t like in a freezin?- rain that's bad, they need shelter then, because once that s'Lort hair ets all wet t'~ey're just soaked to the skin, like a person out there completely soakin' wet, there's no protection, then they need to ?et in out of the weather, and. they will. take to the la rn when it starts raining, in the wintertime or late fall when it's damp and chilly. Eu t otherwise in the winter snow 7Tou' Il see them standinout in the snow. I t ~:%on't even mel t of_F' their backs, they don't even know the snow's on there you might say. They're so well insulated that the snow won't melt, the bod,;l 'neat won't come t'^rcurh t'le hair to melt t'_~c snow off. JC : ~;Vhat a'_"e tr'e Come= si cknesses and illnesses of horses`: -A H C',ay, probaijly, the most CCTmon sickness not to etc;';itr1 -!:lie feet would he a Colic, to where they, ;Tet Into a s t=.n .-e food, where their ~_=-i- i__ 1~. --cA J -1" `-'i_. ~Y'_, - ._1nQ Or __T~..r ~i.°= a veil-a--1e~_=-i- i__ 1~. --cA J -1" `-'i_. ~Y'_, - ._1nQ Or __T~..r ~i.°= a veil-a--1e c~' ±;.~ C_^,, _s wiha± t'`le colic is. if lj--'_~e n- t` --1 ve been

_.'~ a- e t-arn all 'v'I_Y'_t'~~, cY.'„ ;~Ciii=a people do ke _:, they, i_ thee tar'. all

~Pli'~ ;,°r , 'U', e ,_r`sS Erets 7aybe 6 inc'.hes h~,-.h and. +-e .._1 ~:;et out- on

that ia.s ti=a '!:'°~ 1 see t'oey're used to eatin' ,dry feed al'_ the time

%rd now +"_'.e,,''v2 Ec t ?cod :''-cen --ass and t=ey really r:Ic:ke a hogi. of

themselves and bc~- : they'll .- e t tl--a worst bellyache. LTsuall-v they don't die tut - o~._~'ve ,dot to keep them on their feet ar,d moving when this happens. i ou can `et a shot from a vetenar pan t1h.at 11 heap

out but the main think is to keep theril up and :roving until they ^"e t over it. It's lust a real severe belly-ache, what they'll

normall-l do v:Then th;_s happens is they'll .Jet down and start rolling and in all this squ rmin' around and kicking they'll twist a .gut and then die. That's usually what causes them to die, if you can keep ' erg up and walkin' they don't get to do all this squirmin' around and so they just work it out. It just passes and then you're al lriFht main. Eut now the sa~,ie thing can hapyoen i f they get into an unlimited amount of grain all of a sudden, they're used. to just a small portion anal then they happen to yet into the -rain bin they a small portion anal then they happen to yet into the -rain bin they can 7et this colic. And at the sable time that they `,et this belly-ache i t rni,,-ht --et even acre serious and go into founder, which is an inflammation around the hoof area of the foot. !-fhen this happens they becone lame, the foot seems to start ~;rov~in' a v.,hole let taster and, well it's just a real serious lameness problem.

UsuallIT if it hap-ens i:'1 trip sprln?' the horse 1s thrmJ.gh for that

j rear. i ol7 ~-lor't `rc t very little 1f any ~lork cut; Of ' 1i':? for t] 1_e rest of tf) at jrP_ar. So it's sowet~?in;- you always want to avoid - Sudden

cl1%.r es 1n a horse' S set. JOT: 1e are s~..scep tibl a to this colic and

^vunu°Y' 1-~ !,^!~r'_t-N ~~. ~'~~ mcdern z,,tord for it a_r.,i .-_o'~:e hers;„, 1t r-7 n .~ n t t r. ,~ en n - .. 1 r . at t c h ^ t ' _ . - ' _ _ _ ~.0 0~._ em n0 !~~.~ t ~, r ZV;1c.~ ^'-'~ d0. It S •'1S 1._ 'e

y=C')1_. ~.^~.e -=t ~Ck a°_rv -nd s0I:'le don't. 1=:S loner as ~T~?L? avoid ante,

;.1''t-'_c s1',dC...__ c(-~Un:ss 1n t__:.1r envlron-"nen t, t'-'_e food t'.Le-r eat arC:. the amo~ir t of f cod t'hey eat ten y ou usua_11y avoid the problems. In a horse

t'n e7 T' V r. ^'rlt :. ~_^ Of ~0d`i T:laste becaii'Se there's a In ~Of bor~,y there.

If a human' S S-S tem the blood carries all the b7:';_-od't.,_ots frori the body into the liver ar,d the kidneys and it's filtered out t,ere

a:^:d sassed on ti=u-,h. -,-',Llt i n c horse he's ?'ot such a b1Z body y -lie's

^.ot t':~i s blood s7rstem which carries some of it but t,).en tT,ey've `ot another systelr. called the lymph system. It's just like hollow tubes all throuwh ' em just 1 ike the blood vessels. Only it carries these -ante products f _rom_ the bodzr and now when you ~=;-et a. disease or infection in the horse even this lymph system'll clog up somewhere and like in tree founder it seems to clog up down around the feet,

that's where everythin,7' s coming close to tether anti it's ti:uh t and that's when they get the founder when all this inflammation actually gathers right in the feet. In severe cases sometimes the whole

foot' ll fall ri:-ht off, you can pull the whole outer foot of a horse --off, but that's a real severe case.

JG: Is that horse prettlr well done for?

i?!H: For a year or 2, in a case like that you've lost him for 2 years at best. They can still be brought out of it but it takes a long time and a lot of care. Normally it never gets teat severe. Another common disease that may be just as common or more cc_ramon than the colic is shipping fever. It's kind of li 1e a pnuernonia or a real bad cold. Usually the only time you catch it is if you take ?our horses to a sale or you buy a horse at a sale or frcrn a snow, and it's ex-used to it and you br 1n~r ;.t ho-^e to -,-our other horses. it's ex-used to it and you br 1n~r ;.t ho-^e to -,-our other horses. r"ha-t " S *~~'^~,n ~.ol; have ~o t~lorry about it a%C! usl_-ally he'll catch 1t, ~rou '_ci~.o~rr, if ~•ou've bou`ht a horse at a sale 50 percent of the time ~o~._a're ~D'onna ;,,ring home sickness with him.

JG: Do -,rou isolate him from the other horses,?

I_H: Rio, vlell in severe cases 1 have but normally see this shlppin fever thej,-- only -et once, and then if you leave the sickness go

throu^:h it's natural colzrse this lymph system won't be able to carry all the byproducts and for some reason in shipping- fever they alwa->s break around the jaw or some area of the head. That's not 100 percent true. I've seen them break out in the legs. But this lymph system, where it cio?s up it'll actually bust out through the skin and the pus and stuff'll actually run right out through a hole in the sh-in. Normally it goes around the jaw, maybe above the eye and then once it goes through it's course and this lymph system breaks and everything it goes through it's course and this lymph system breaks and everything drains out and heals up the horse is immune to it. You can, if you see the horse is gettin' sick, you can give 'im antibiotics and you may cure 'im that time but they've built no immunity up so he'll get it again. So I always just let 'em go ahead and catch it and run the course and then you don't have to worry about 'em. You can take your horses to a show or to a plowin' get-together or buy new horses and bring 'em in with your other horses you don't have to horses and bring 'em in with your other horses you don't have to worry about ' em getting laid up for the rest of the year if they get sick.

JG: How about colds? Do they get colds? Being out as much as they are...

AH: Well, no. Actually you're just wrong completely turned around. It's the horses that are in all the time that f, et the sicknesses.

Ti-ta t' g !List 1 i _rp snmebodr to,-at stcSTs intne house all winter long, :,ell ma,;Tbe t--- `et outside and ~-et real c-11.ed one day well-, they're gcr,^a Vet sic' I'11 almost uarant:e you because their body isn't adapted to the cold weather. A horse that can run in and out, if the;have adequate food and water, will almost never get sick. there the horse that's kept inside, he won't get sick as long as he's 1<

'~a,ve c,.~ tree Or ~OT!met.1;n- that t":ey can "et in under out o= the sun.

I've '^?ver seen a :'!0="Se that ,\iasnt working come ~.'o~^T:1 with sunstroke b'.~t it's so muci^ better --or -an animal to be in the shade than 011 in tl~e direct, hot s~_.n. It takes a let out of 'em if their not in the shade, i T they are and it's hot at least , lt' s not pounding down on 1; ` e _''' .

J' T: Werve kind of already hit this question, but do they lave personalities that differ quite a bit?

AH: Ch _Tah, ever' horse has a different personality, no 2 horses are exactly alike. They vary from one extreme to the other. I was telling about how you can tell what their personality will be just b,,T lookin' at their head, and. the more you work with horses the better you -et at this readin-- their heads you might say. Where one horse doesn't care what goes on around 'im, just like the "Ole Doblin" the'T used to call him, just a easy going horse'd plod along, you et another horse that he's watching everything, just the leastet another horse that he's watching everything, just the least little thin- stran,ve or different he's up on his toes ready to run. Ever' horse is different. Some horses like people, some are happiest when they're workin' and nobody's messin' with 'em. And then others want petted all the time, so there's a. real wide range of personalities there. And their different personalities makes 'em different training. `There one catches on quicker, the old "don't give a darn" horse - he may be actually harder to train because "don't give a darn" horse - he may be actually harder to train because he won't do nothin' wron_7 but then he won't really try to do anything right either.

JG: Y_- last question is: could you describe the .fond that can develop between the man. and the horse?

AH: Okay, I don't know if you'd call it a bond or a frienship or jest what 1t is, I've even heard it referred to as -;SP between the

T± sots ;,,-st 1 iy,~a you're working together so much es,ecia_11y in tire sprin:, and summer of tire year that the horse knows what you want before sr ou do it. And after while you even be.-.in to expect the horse to ':=now irr'm t wou ^,~=an t and they car. reach a point where the horse does kr.olrr what needs to be done. And he knows how you feel before jrou do somethin7-, like if you're in an an== mood he's yonna really be just perfect, and if you're in a happy-go-lucky mood and don't care too much well he's donna feel it and goof up a little bit. He can feel if ~:-ou're feelin' food, he knows if you're feelin' good, or if ,rou're not feelin' good. And vou ~;et so that it's the same war with the horse, you can tell just by the wa,~,r he's standing in the 'earn if ire's ri Jht up to a 100 percent or i f lie' s a little bit tired or just, you know, his whole attitude. But it takes a lot of hours before you get this bond between you and a team of horses, however many you're workin'. JC~ : Is i t something that grows through the~ear s AH: Ch yah, the more time you spend with the horse the more it's there. The horse _~ets to know you better and ~~ ou ~~et to know him, your attitudes and characteristics you might even say. They set to know Vou just as good as you know Ar curself. A horse mainly knows i7 he does something wrong vou're gonna correct ' im and so he's always pal

,'_ng attention to ya, and the more he's pairing attention to ya the more this bond grows. I don't know if it ever gets to the point where it doesn't grow, the horse is always gonna surprise era 1:^^Tith doir_,7 a 1 i -'t..tle more extra that vou didn't think he could do. As time does on lie alwa~Ts keeps learning it seems like.